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gnperdue
08-18-2007, 08:28 PM
After 25 iterations, I think I finally have my sliders for AA set. I haven't changed the sliders for seven games now (I am 5-2 in those games), and that is by far the longest stretch of stability. I developed these while playing a seaon with Texas, a season with Clemson, and a season and a half with Maryland, along with some play now games (also with Maryland). I got a lot of help and inspiration from steelerfan and playmakers, so I'll tip my hat to them now.

I run a balanced (slightly pass heavy) offense and either a 4-3 or a 3-4 depending on personnell. (The 3-4 is much stronger in this game, IMO.) They come with some house rules that I adhere to at all times. I obviously endorse these rules, but do what you like.

House Rules
--------------
1) You may not toss an option pitch to a Wide Reciver.
2) You may not toss an option pitch beyond the line of scrimmage more than once per half.
3) You may not run the same offensive play twice in a half.
4) You may not run the same defensive play twice in a quarter.
5) Bonus: If you feel very strong, switch rule 3 to read oncer per game and rule 4 to once per half.

The Sliders
-------------
User QB Accuracy - 50. I experimented with higher values here, but I read defenses well enough that I would almost never throw an intercetpion without errant passes. If you don't have that "problem" you will see a large improvement at 55.
User Pass Blocking - 95. I still feel my pass protection is terrible at this setting, and I have an elite line.
User WR Catching - 40. I got the idea to lower this value from steelerfan. In general, I don't even notice it.
User RB Ability - 50. Default is fine here.
User Run Blocking - 55. In general, User blocking is poor on AA. I would raise this even more based on the animations and individual plays, but at the end of the day, my running game is healthy, statistically speaking, here.
User Awareness - 0. This is an effort to calm the Interception Probelm.
User Knockdowns - 0. This is also an effort to slow CPU INT's.
User Intercetptions - 10. This looks funky, I know, but trust me, 0/0 on Knockdowsn/INT's does not work. I got this insight from playmakers and I'll post a quote of his below.
User Break Block - 55. Nominally, this is to help generate a pass-rush, but I've found that athletic sacks on AA are essentially impossible. You have to scheme very, very well to get pressure.
User Tackling - 60. This is mostly for the boost in pursuit angles. You have to bring this up to compensate for 0 Awareness in the run game.
User FG Power - 15. This looks low, but I think it is accurate.
User FG Accuracy - 0. I am still a two time Groza winner sporting an 86% FG accuracy mark with the slider here. Trust me, the kicking game will still be easy here. I would take this about 20 points lower if I could.
User Punt Power - 40. This may still be too high.
User Punt Accuracy - 40. This may be too high too. Coffin-corners are still not too hard to pull off here.
User Kickoff Power - 40. This feels about right to me.

CPU QB Accuracy - 60. The goal here is to keep the CPU from throwing picks on good reads. It almost never makes a good read, so I want to protect the precious few it does.
CPU Pass Blocking - 15. I still have an extremely hard time getting to the QB and would lower this except for my pride.
CPU WR Catching - 40. This is mostly to help compensate for the QB accuracy.
CPU RB Ability - 75. I don't think you can go much lower than this or the CPU will fumble too often. This setting can be frustrating in that it is very hard for the first defender to bring a runner down, but the CPU runs enough terrible running plays to balance things out in the end.
CPU Run Blocking - 75. This setting is mostly about helping the CPU with its poor running scheme. The unfortunate drawback is that the CPU is almost unstoppable on short yardage if it just pounds the ball, but without this, its scheme is so bad it can't run well in other situations.
CPU Awareness - 40. I brought this down just to the point where defenders in man coverage with their backs turned respond to the ball after a step rather than instantly to keep the passing game from feeling less contrived. I can move the ball on higher settings, but I have to cheese. Here I just play normal and relaxed.
CPU Knockdowns - 0.
CPU Intercetptions - 10.
CPU Break Block - 45. This is mostly about slowing the absurdly good pass rush. I would move this lower but I don't want to upset the running game too much.
CPU Tackling - 65. Tackling here is bumped up to improve pursuit (offsetting the lowered awareness).
CPU FG Power - 15. This is the level I feel is realistic. Unfortunately, the CPU still trots out the kicker for 57 yard field goals into the wind in the rain. But at least 53 Overall kickers don't just ace kicks like that now (good kickers still hit from 50-55 pretty well).
CPU FG Accuracy - 20. This looks ornery, but elite kickers aren't affected at all. Complete scrubs will not ace 50 yarders from the far hash here.
CPU Punt Power - 40. This may be too high. Outkicking coverage is a big part of why we see such big returns. Certainly, you cannot have this set higher than 40.
CPU Punt Accuracy - 40.
CPU Kickoff Power - 40.

Okay, so I know the INT setting looks funky, but trust me, I think it is the best we can do. With 0/0/0 for Awareness/Knock/Int my team averaged 3.75 INT's per game (over 16 games). With 0/0/10 I've averaged 1.86 INT's per game (over 7 games). I got the idea to move to this setting from playmakers, and here is what he had to say about it:


Here's what I think and how those two sliders are working. If you uitlize one the other has to be at 0.

For example the Default setup is 50/50.

Well if you leave one at 50 the other has to be dropped to 0. If you set them both to 0/0 your still going to see pretty much the same results as if the sliders were back at 50/50 because your not setting a ratio.

It's kinda confusing but it doesn't appear the sliders are backwards but the INT slider by itself represents 2 clicks for every one click you adjust the KDWN slider and it determines a certain percentage the defenders try to go for a pick. This is based off of the CPU QBA being at DEFAULT 50 and no higher with Human AWR at 0.

Ratio:

INT-5 = KDWN's at 40-45 or Defenders try to go for the pick about 5% of the time. This setting probably gets you 0-1 picks per game as a normal pattern.

INT-10= KDWN's at 35-40 or defenders try to go for the pick about 10% of the time. This setting probably gets you 1-2 picks per game as a normal pattern.

INT-15= KDWN's at 30-35 or defenders try to go for the pick about 15% of the time. This setting probabaly gets you 2-3 picks per game as a normal pattern.

I could be totally wrong but it appears that if you use the INT Slider by itself starting at 0 then it functions as the KDWN slider in reverse order. If you increase the INT Slider from 0 to 5 then it will act as if you had the KDWN Slider set between 40-45 and INT at 0. But remember the other has to be 0 at all times they can't be used together.


I messed around with Knockdown above 0, but it doesn't really work. I've found with Knockdowns up instead of INT, that players warp to the ball to pick it off. With the INT slider bumped up instead, you don't see that. You will still pick the CPU off once or twice per game. I really don't think that can be helped. The CPU simply cannot read coverage, and if you go back and watch replays, you'll find that even the bulk of its completions are really ill-advised throws. Occasionally it will hit a guy who is wide open, but it throws into coverage like it is getting paid to. But, with these sliders I'm not seeing the 4, 5, and 6 INT games. I've picked the CPU off 3 times twice these settings, but both times they all came late in the game when the CPU was well behind and pressing to catch up.

I haven't tested 0/5 yet for Knockdown/INT yet, mostly because 0/10 has felt really good. Actually, my other sliders were developed in an environment where I was picking off 4-5 passes per game, so when that number drops to 1-2, I'm having a lot of trouble stopping the CPU now! Regardless, it is quite possible 0/5 might be the better setting (according to playmakers above), so check that out if you like.

grisch44
08-19-2007, 10:33 AM
What console are you using and what is your style of play, who do you typically control on offense and defense?

I've been using PM's sliders with pretty good results but I'll give these a try.

grisch44
08-19-2007, 12:21 PM
GNP, these played really well for the most part. I had a hard time getting any running room consistently with OSU versus NWU, which is unrealistic. But I'm not that good so maybe I just need to improve my playcalling a bit.

The CPU only threw 2 picks and fumbled once.

GOVols
08-19-2007, 12:32 PM
GNP, these played really well for the most part. I had a hard time getting any running room consistently with OSU versus NWU, which is unrealistic. But I'm not that good so maybe I just need to improve my playcalling a bit.

The CPU only threw 2 picks and fumbled once.

What was the final score?

grisch44
08-19-2007, 01:07 PM
What was the final score?

28-24 osu (me)

I had two stupid turnovers, one they returned for a TD, the other was also in my own end of the field and they eventually scored a TD.

GOVols
08-19-2007, 01:32 PM
Wow, these sliders play well, but I must suck. I had thrown one pick the whole game which was my fault and Virginia had not thrown one.

I cannot stop there running game, period. It was 37-16 in the 3rd and I gave up.

gnperdue
08-19-2007, 05:02 PM
I'm on the 360 and on offense I control whoever has the ball. I usually control a D-lineman or a linebacker on defense (I play an LB when I really need the player to stick to his zone, but usually play a D-lineman when I'm in man coverage).

The CPU's running game is ferocious with these sliders. You have to scheme very, very well to stop it. When you play a team that runs the ball intelligently (i.e., power-running and sweep-style option) these sliders will feel unfair. However, careful scheming can contain even intelligent running. Even elite backs rarely average over 5 yards per carry against me. I think a big switch is that most people are so used to dominating the CPU's run game, that when it does really run the ball effectively, it feels wildly out of hand. In the end, I like the sliders here because it gives teams with really poor running schemes a chance. Remeber that a strong run game means the CPU will feel less pressure to throw. If it puts the ball in the air more than 30 times, you almost cannot help but to pick it off twice.

Running the ball is also surprisingly difficult with these sliders. Again, you really have to scheme well. When you play a top tier defense, the CPU will feel, athletically speaking, like its run defense has a really unfair advantage. But you can get around this by running very intelligently and really attacking weaknesses and avoiding poor running plays. If you just can't deal with the asymmetry, then feel free to bump up the run blocking a notch or two, but be careful. If you are even just athletically even, you will dominate because you almost certainly call plays much, much better than the CPU can.

GOVols
08-19-2007, 05:35 PM
Well I really like the sliders, I'm sticking with them. You just have to play smart and that actually makes it fun.

I re-started with Tennessee and lost to Cal 26-7, but heres how it went.

I had 3 times to score in the redzone, I was picked off once and the other was a 4th and goal i couldnt convert on the 2, it was 10-7 at the half and I even scored the first possession of the game.

Got Southern Miss next and I'll let you know how it goes.

gnperdue
08-19-2007, 06:06 PM
If people are interested in testing, I'm curious how 0/5 on Knockdown/INT plays. I had my first four INT game against the CPU this morning (although it did take overtime to get my 4th pick off it). I think I might have to house rule out the Quarters Defense. The CPU has real trouble with Quarters.

Are people doing the testing following any of my house rules, or are people just calling whatever play they like?

GOVols
08-19-2007, 06:38 PM
If people are interested in testing, I'm curious how 0/5 on Knockdown/INT plays. I had my first four INT game against the CPU this morning (although it did take overtime to get my 4th pick off it). I think I might have to house rule out the Quarters Defense. The CPU has real trouble with Quarters.

Are people doing the testing following any of my house rules, or are people just calling whatever play they like?


I'm calling whatever and still getting my ass handed to me. It's 21-13 UT in the 3rd with one score coming off a pick for a TD. Man,I blow.

gnperdue
08-19-2007, 07:11 PM
Hmmm, well. As long as the CPU isn't turning the ball over like crazy, I feel like the sliders are more or less performing. Is the big problem the running game? If you are getting dominated on the ground by lesser talent, bring down the CPU Run Blocking 1 click and push up the User Run Blocking 1 click.

With Run Blocking at 75, the CPU is guaranteed a phenomenal push in short yardage, so that can be devastating if you get a long streak of really smart playcalls out of the CPU.

Thanks for testing and offering feedback, by the way. In general, if you feel something is really off, please feel free to change it. Just let me know what you changed and why so I can see if it improves the games I'm playing too.

GOVols
08-19-2007, 08:16 PM
Hmmm, well. As long as the CPU isn't turning the ball over like crazy, I feel like the sliders are more or less performing. Is the big problem the running game? If you are getting dominated on the ground by lesser talent, bring down the CPU Run Blocking 1 click and push up the User Run Blocking 1 click.

With Run Blocking at 75, the CPU is guaranteed a phenomenal push in short yardage, so that can be devastating if you get a long streak of really smart playcalls out of the CPU.

Thanks for testing and offering feedback, by the way. In general, if you feel something is really off, please feel free to change it. Just let me know what you changed and why so I can see if it improves the games I'm playing too.


Ended up beating Southern Miss 31-23, lowered CPU Run Blocking to 70 and it seemed helpful. Game should've ended 35-23 I was in the redzone and kicked a FG.

gnperdue
08-19-2007, 08:17 PM
Just for comparison's sake, here are the games I've played with these sliders (2nd season of my Maryland Dynasty):

MD(A) @ Texas Tech(A-) 35-10
Total offense 422-328
User Rush 46-211-3td/3fum
CPU Rush 20-79-1td/1fum
User Pass 17/24-211-1td/2int, 2Sk
CPU Pas 20/43-249-0td/2int, 3Sk
My running game was awesome here, Tech just couldn't get me off the field.

MD(A) @ WVU(A-) 32-34
Total offense 302-346
User Rush 22-52-2td/0fum
CPU Rush 48-154-2td/0fum
User Pass 17/30-250-2td/3int, 1Sk
CPU Pass 18/27-192-1td/2int, 1Sk
User Kick 2/2 FG, 2/2 XP
CPU Kick 2/2 FG, 4/4 XP
User Return 86 PR, 211 KR
CPU Return 43 PR, 163 KR
Tough road loss - Pat White destroyed on the ground. I started tracking return yards and kicking stats here to see how skewed special teams are.

MD(A) @ Clem(A) 34-17
Total offense 421-278
User Rush 37-144-2td/2fum
CPU Rush 15-22-1td/0fum
User Pass 22/28-277-2td/0int, 3Sk
CPU Pass 24/36-256-1td/1int, 4Sk
User Kick 2/2 FG (lg 20), 4/4 XP
CPU Kick 1/2 FG (lg 53), 2/2 XP
User Return 48 PR, 92 KR
CPU Return 0 PR, 181 KR
For whatever reason, Clemson pretty much just declined to run the football the whole game.

MD(A) v WF(B+) 29-3
Total offense 349-230
User Rush 32-114-1td/0fum
CPU Rush 34-61-0td/0fum
User Pass 18/30-235-2/1, 1Sk
CPU Pass 18/27-169-0/2, 1Sk
User Kick 2/3 FG (lg 48), 3/3 XP
CPU Kick 1/3 FG (lg 27)
User Return 84 PR, 74 KR
CPU Return 0 PR, 127 KR
Wake tried a couple of 55+ yard FG's in the first quarter that failed and lead to awesome field position. Things snowballed from there.

MD(A) @ UVA(B) 22-25
Total Offense 269-332
User Rush 22-65-1td/1fum
CPU Rush 28-53-2td/1fum
User Pass 18/36-204-1td/2int, 2Sk
CPU Pass 27/37-279-1td/0int, 3Sk
User Kick 3/4 FG (lg 43), 1/1 XP
CPU Kick 1/2 FG (lg 35), 2/2 XP
User Return 152 PR, 97 KR
CPU Return 16 PR, 136 KR
I dominated the first three quarters, mostly because of special teams play (see my punt return yards), but I gave up 18 points in the last 3 minutes of the game to lose (there was a bad fumble and a bad INT that set it all up). I was furious though because UVA completed five consecutive fourth down conversions in the last five minutes of the game.

MD(A) v UNC(B) 44-27
Total Offense 463-356
User Rush 34-269-4td/1fum
CPU Rush 36-80-2td/0fum
User Pass 13/21-194-1td/1int, 0Sk
CPU Pass 24/39-276-0td/2int, 0Sk
User Kick 3/3 FG (lg 39), 5/5 XP
CPU Kick 2/4 FG (lg 29), 3/3 XP
User Return 32 PR, 136 KR
CPU Return 0 PR, 244 KR
This game was a LOT closer than the final score suggests. A pair of huge 70+ yard runs late in the game while I was trying to kill the clock blew things up. Both of the CPU picks came with less than three minutes to go while the CPU was trying desperately to get back in the game.

MD(A)@VaTech(B+) 34-24
Total offense 368-381
User Rush 32-116-1/0
CPU Rush 26-109-0/0
User Pass 19/24-252-1/2, 3Sk
CPU Pass 24/39-272-1/2, 3Sk
User Kick 2/2 FG (lg 43), 4/4 XP
CPU Kick 3/3 FG (lg 31), 1/1 XP
User Return 41 PR, 111 KR, 113 INTR (2 TD)
CPU Return 0 PR, 234 KR (TD), 4 INTR
This is the game I started tracking defensive return yards. Two pick-6's are the only reason I won this game. I couldn't stop Va Tech's offense at all. They punted once the whole game (I did get a big return off it though). Their offense only scored 16 points (they did the 2-pt conversion on their kick return TD), but they dominated time of posession.

MD(A) v FSU(A+) 27-10
Total offense 251-226
User Rush 28-76-0td/0fum
CPU Rush 35-92-0td/0fum 1
User Pass 15/26-175-2/3, 3Sk
CPU Pass 15/28-134-1/3, 4Sk
User Kick 2/2 FG (lg 46), 3/3 XP
CPU Kick 1/1 FG (lg 51), 1/1 XP
User Return 29 PR, 72 KR, 78 INTR (TD)
CPU Return 27 PR, 132 KR, 42 INTR
This game was 13-10 halfway through the 4th quarter (both teams had less than 80 yards of offense in the first half) when I hit a play action streak to my slot reciever (have still not hit a streak to a flanker or split end) to go up 20-10. The pick-6 came after that while FSU was trying to get back in the game. FSU's strong safety (Rolle?) had 3 picks and dominated, but it wasn't enough.

MD(A)@ND(A) 38-31 (1OT)
Total Offense 359-394
User Rush 36-142-2td/0fum
CPU Rush 27-101-1td/0fum
User Pass 14/26-216-1td/2int, 2Sk
CPU Pass 28/41-293-3td/4int, 1Sk
User Kick 3/3 FG (lg 34), 3/3 XP
CPU Kick 1/1 FG (lg 26), 4/4 XP
User Return 19 PR, 115 KR, 48 INTR (TD)
CPU Return 19 PR, 164 KR, 21 INTR
The 4 picks here really worry me, but the 4th came in overtime. In general, Clausen destroyed me, but I picked him off three times on 3rd and long out of the Quarters defense, which has me thinking about house ruling out the Quarters defense aligment. His throws into Quarters zones were simply awful, and without just one or two of those throws, Notre Dame wins this one.

GOVols
08-19-2007, 08:44 PM
You drilled some good teams, nice.

GOVols
08-19-2007, 10:02 PM
I lost to Florida, 37-20. Ainge threw 3 picks and all of them were my fault. I just have to get better at reading the defenses.

It was 34-20 and I super simmed it, they decided to kick a fg.[down]

It was 17-17 in the 3rd and a couple picks cost me the game, damn.

Catch28
08-19-2007, 10:24 PM
gnp I will be sure to try these out and post some results for you

I like how you made it so the CPU actually has a run game

GOVols
08-20-2007, 02:18 AM
Well, finally getting the feel for these sliders.

I beat Arkansas St. 26-7 and had a close one with Georgia, won 31-17. UGA was 2-3 when I played them.

GOVols
08-20-2007, 11:54 PM
Well, the interceptions kill this game. I picked off Wilson like 6 times and beat Alabama 62-14. I was beating South Carolina 28-7 in the 2nd after 2 INT returns for touchdowns.

supersigma2of21
08-21-2007, 07:06 AM
The only solution I've found for curbing cpu thrown interceptions is to super sim my defense. The stats are very realistic and the biggest plus is that the games are MUCH faster.

gnperdue
08-21-2007, 09:42 AM
Well, the interceptions kill this game. I picked off Wilson like 6 times and beat Alabama 62-14. I was beating South Carolina 28-7 in the 2nd after 2 INT returns for touchdowns.

Ouch, sorry to hear that things went so bad. I've been having decent luck with CPU INT's, but maybe that's just it, luck. My only comments are: consider my house rules with my sliders (they beef up the challenge significantly in my opinion) and maybe test 0/5 for Knockdown/INT to see if that gets better results.

Overall, there is no question in my mind that the horrendous CPU QB AI is by far the biggest problem with this game, one that towers over everything else and does very nearly kill the game for me too. I understand the online guys are more worried about the option being broken, but for Dynasty people, that really isn't a problem. A simple house rule takes care of it. But the CPU's complete inability to read coverage and avoid throwing to covered recievers is inexcusable and there is no question that I will not be buying another EA football game of any sort until there is clear evidence they have fixed the problem.

Supersigma, I've thought about super-simming defense to get around the INT problem, but except for the INT's, I like playing defense. Still, we may be forced into something like that eventually.

GOVols
08-21-2007, 10:21 AM
Ouch, sorry to hear that things went so bad. I've been having decent luck with CPU INT's, but maybe that's just it, luck. My only comments are: consider my house rules with my sliders (they beef up the challenge significantly in my opinion) and maybe test 0/5 for Knockdown/INT to see if that gets better results.

Overall, there is no question in my mind that the horrendous CPU QB AI is by far the biggest problem with this game, one that towers over everything else and does very nearly kill the game for me too. I understand the online guys are more worried about the option being broken, but for Dynasty people, that really isn't a problem. A simple house rule takes care of it. But the CPU's complete inability to read coverage and avoid throwing to covered recievers is inexcusable and there is no question that I will not be buying another EA football game of any sort until there is clear evidence they have fixed the problem.

Supersigma, I've thought about super-simming defense to get around the INT problem, but except for the INT's, I like playing defense. Still, we may be forced into something like that eventually.


Yeah, I shouldn't have to sim my defense so I won't pick it off for 6.

DonohoFlnkr
08-21-2007, 11:02 AM
While my other sliders are different, I did change the Knd/INTs for both User and CPU to 0/5 and I just had my first game with ZERO ints for both teams.
My problem, however, is that I get no pressure on the QB, so I can either have sacks and a million INTS, or I can have no sacks and no ints. I just don't like that tradeoff, but I am willing to accept this fact for 08. Just hopefully we will not have to make the same or similar tradeoffs in 09.

Catch28
08-21-2007, 09:49 PM
I really like these gnp I started a dynasty with Hawaii and will be posting some stats sometime

their defense is damn terrible though haha