EA Blog Discusses Next-Gen Blocking

[cdj]

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/screens/ncaafootball08/ncaa08_default.png While this blog from VJ LeBlanc (http://www.easports.com/maddennfl/blogs.jsp?url=blogs%2Fgame%2Farchive%2F2007%2F06%2 F22%2Fmadden-nfl-08-next-gen-blocking.aspx) may be intended for Madden 08, the new "next-gen blocking" will also be in NCAA 08. In his blog, learn about the new cut blocking logic, better pass blocking, and double teams and zone blocking.

[ThaHeelsn04]

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/screens/ncaafootball08/ncaa08_default.png While this blog from VJ LeBlanc (http://www.easports.com/maddennfl/blogs.jsp?url=blogs%2Fgame%2Farchive%2F2007%2F06%2 F22%2Fmadden-nfl-08-next-gen-blocking.aspx) may be intended for Madden 08, the new "next-gen blocking" will also be in NCAA 08. In his blog, learn about the new cut blocking logic, better pass blocking, and double teams and zone blocking.

Finally, nice find....:D

[Keith1212]

:D

I think I watched that vid in the blog about 30x. This new blocking should be GREAT.

[coogrfan]

Incredible stuff, I'm beginning to see now why Rhombic was so impressed. Is it July 17th yet?

[Fluff E Bunny]

:D

I think I watched that vid in the blog about 30x. This new blocking should be GREAT.

It was fucking beautiful. I have a new avatar.

[durd2817]

It was fucking beautiful. I have a new avatar.
LMAO [laugh]

Madden looks outstanding. The player models and running animations look better than NCAA.

[DonohoFlnkr]

From the Blog:

Just as a side note – for those defensive minded players…don’t despair! We have spent a great amount of time ensuring balance. The defense swarms and is much better at getting off their blocks. Right away you will see some great improvements to the “flow” of the defense, with them moving laterally as they wait to see how the play will develop, whereas many times in previous years the defenders would charge the run extremely early (which could get them tangled up in a big mess too easily).




Thank you, EA!!!....I mean, Thank You, Tiburon!!

[Ska King]

i wonder if they got the correct blocking assignments for running the most badass play of all time?

wondering how to stop it when run effectively? pray.

[RUSSELL05]

Right away you will see some great improvements to the “flow” of the defense, with them moving laterally as they wait to see how the play will develop, whereas many times in previous years the defenders would charge the run extremely early (which could get them tangled up in a big mess too easily).

I'm glad someone else picked up on this that was a game killer for me last year in next gen all the LB's would just crash the middle of the field on any and all running plays thats why it was so easy to bounce runs outside this is a huge upgrade.

[Papa LoneStar]

*nuts*

[CFR-116]

From the Blog:

Just as a side note – for those defensive minded players…don’t despair! We have spent a great amount of time ensuring balance. The defense swarms and is much better at getting off their blocks. Right away you will see some great improvements to the “flow” of the defense, with them moving laterally as they wait to see how the play will develop, whereas many times in previous years the defenders would charge the run extremely early (which could get them tangled up in a big mess too easily).






This news right here, has put the biggest smile on my face of all the other news we've heard. That one word...."Balance" was something in this game I was praying for. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...hot damm!, [pardon my French] :D But Jesus mother and Mary, this is what I was waiting to hear. The defense "flowing" to the ball and at long last getting off the blocks!....please tell me I'm not freaking dreaming.:)

I'm on a roll here guys....I'm going to swear one more time,[laugh] one of my biggest bitches about the game in the past was the shitty [opps] overall defense, mostly the "User team's" defense. God, how many times I've grumbled to myself when the CPU ran anything to the outside..."Where the hell is the rest of my defense!"...."For Christ sake!"..."I'm out here all alone."

If what this news says, truely matches what we see in the game for both CPU and user team's defense on heisman level, Ncaa '08' will blow away anything we've suffered through before.

[lexlucid]

If he pulls this off, I recommend renaming this site "LeBlanc-a-topia". Finally, someone who knows what theyre doing. Im glad to see EA is finally trying to get a handle on blocking and tackling. Pun intended.

[lexlucid]

I think that their ideas on blocking and such were the biggest problem area and if they are successful, there could be a game to enjoy. But underneath all of that, as always, I think it boils down to being able to achieve realistic stats AND play through either AA or Heisman. As many have said before, Heisman cheats too heavily for the CPU while AA is often too easy.

Of course, on the other hand, perhaps sliders have been so important as a means to offset/workaround foundational problems like the blocking and CPU ESP flow and maybe by correcting these foundational problems, sliders wont be as hugely important. Its not that I think sliders would possibly be irrelevant but perhaps they might not be so vital to enjoy the game by achieving some form of realism.

[rhombic21]

The only thing that I'm somewhat nervous about is how the blocking will work with college style option plays (wishbone and flexbone in particular), since it seems like the blocking schemes were developed more for Madden and then ported to NCAA, rather than being developed specifically for NCAA. I'm kicking myself that I didn't run some triple option on NG when I had the chance to down at EA.

[BQ1005]

blocking looks great, might be able to finally run zone plays on ncaa

[Ska King]

The only thing that I'm somewhat nervous about is how the blocking will work with college style option plays (wishbone and flexbone in particular), since it seems like the blocking schemes were developed more for Madden and then ported to NCAA, rather than being developed specifically for NCAA. I'm kicking myself that I didn't run some triple option on NG when I had the chance to down at EA.

check this out:
go to you tube.com, and type in ncaa 08 oklahoma st.

[rhombic21]

check this out:
go to you tube.com, and type in ncaa 08 oklahoma st.
If you're talking about this video, then it's not a flexbone formation, although it is option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvah5vHLG8

Incidentally, that video highlights the concerns that I have with the QB making a perfect pitch from almost on the ground, and you can also see where the FS doesn't react to the pitch very well (he just sits there and doesn't move until the HB is in the endzone).

[ThaHeelsn04]

If you're talking about this video, then it's not a flexbone formation, although it is option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvah5vHLG8

Incidentally, that video highlights the concerns that I have with the QB making a perfect pitch from almost on the ground, and you can also see where the FS doesn't react to the pitch very well (he just sits there and doesn't move until the HB is in the endzone).

Also looks as if his knee is close to being down... very difficult to pitch..[glare]

[steelerfan]

rhombic, did you guys get a chance to point this out to EA? Did they see it as a problem? Did they give any indication as to whether or not they could or would fix it in time? Also, did you see the sliders to see if there were any new ones?

[rhombic21]

I believe we did point it out to EA. The game was super late in debug, so I doubt they can fix it for this year.

Didn't check out sliders.

[cdj]

rhombic, did you guys get a chance to point this out to EA? Did they see it as a problem? Did they give any indication as to whether or not they could or would fix it in time?

From what I could tell on this, it seemed that pitches either happened or they did not. Didn't hear of any 'bad pitches' occuring.

[rhombic21]

From what I could tell on this, it seemed that pitches either happened or they did not. Didn't hear of any 'bad pitches' occuring, though that doesn't mean they don't exist - just didn't see them.

From what I can tell, the game lacks a "bad pitch" possibility. Essentially the only thing that causes a bad pitch is if a defender physically gets between the QB and HB and knocks the pitch down.

[jwhite25]

yeah you can definitely intercept the pitch, just have to get really really lucky. it's fun when you do though. take to the house the other way :)

[ps3sportgamer]

yeah you can definitely intercept the pitch, just have to get really really lucky. it's fun when you do though. take to the house the other way :)

Andy Katzenmoyer did that vs Iowa in the mid 90's. I was there and it was sweet.

[supersigma2of21]

Niiiiiice!

[keyser soze]

If you're talking about this video, then it's not a flexbone formation, although it is option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvah5vHLG8

Incidentally, that video highlights the concerns that I have with the QB making a perfect pitch from almost on the ground, and you can also see where the FS doesn't react to the pitch very well (he just sits there and doesn't move until the HB is in the endzone).

Oh Lord, that video makes me ill. Absolutely NOTHING about that pitch was real life. The QB was hog tied and going down and then laterals a perfect pitch to a HB running in stride with his head 180 degrees in the opposite direction he is running. I really, really, REALLY hope this has been taken out or the option will be 100% broken this year and have to be house ruled out yet again.

I think Rhombic's point about blocking being developed for pro football is a good one and perhaps a strong argument for just waiting for Madden this year.

[Keith1212]

If you're talking about this video, then it's not a flexbone formation, although it is option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvah5vHLG8

Incidentally, that video highlights the concerns that I have with the QB making a perfect pitch from almost on the ground, and you can also see where the FS doesn't react to the pitch very well (he just sits there and doesn't move until the HB is in the endzone).
Yea that pitch was horrible. Beyond horrible actually. The option looks like its going to be extremely annoying to defend in '08 just based off of that. Everything was looking so good too :(

I can only hope that the late pitch is easy to defend. If it isn't or its ridiculously hard to consistently do, then online play is going to be ridiculously frustrating once again. I see myself cursing like a madman, pounding my fist into something very solid several times a game online until I swear off NCAA online for good two weeks after the release. Two months after the release I'll be laughing at rhombic's rant posts in the online section wondering why people even play the game online still.

Edit- Soce I agree, if this late pitch madness is the gamebreaker I'm thinking it'll be then Madden might be the best choice this year.

[rhombic21]

We'll see. The option seemed over-effective in our time down there. In the championship game, Damon broke off a 30 yard option keeper TD with John David Booty (although Moos says that he made a user error that led to the play), but he also had a couple botched pitches (tried to pitch in traffic) later in the game.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out. I hope that it's something that I can run online without feeling dirty, because I'm really looking forward to implementing some of my option schemes with the new blocking AI and auto-motion.

You can see some more option if you download Mad Sci's championship video from maddenmatrix:

http://www.maddenmatrix.com/

[gschwendt]

Was it 2004 that the option was almost guaranteed everytime (except for traffic)? You would think they would have learned their lesson since then and ensured that you can't pitch it from your knees. How was the option on 07 for the 360?

[rhombic21]

Option for 360 on '07 was basically the same way:

http://www.zshare.net/video/evlhmer13-ou-uf-wmv.html
http://www.zshare.net/video/olemissvsnavy-bh-wmv.html

[redandblack]

One thing I noticed in past years, EA never released any news about new gameplay physics and such. This is a really good sign I think.

[RUSSELL05]

One thing I noticed in past years, EA never released any news about new gameplay physics and such. This is a really good sign I think.


You can thank Mike J and RAC for that they are really putting content out there for the hardcore community this year.

[CFR-116]

I sure do agree the perfect option pitch in that video is pretty much BS, but what made things even worst was the ease the RB scored. Ya you have to pray the option plays don't turn out to be nearly money, that would really be a bummer because I love using the option. I'm holding out hope that while ya...the BS pitches I'm quite sure will be in the final product, but with most of what I've heard and have seen...overall I think the defenses will react better than what is showen in that vid....or so I hope.

Off target pitches due to contact would be great, and of course far more realistic and would lessen the effect of the option plays. For me anyway, and I would think for most of us the option is the "Homerun" ground play, and in a pinch I've always used the option even when passing was a more realistic call, because it was normally so effective even on heisman level. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this....if I find myself down by 7 and this is my last drive of the game, chances are it's option left....option right, and it's very effective, too effective, so anything that would make the option plays more rewarding by being more difficult like off target pitches would really be welcome.

The BS pitch I guess I can deal with, as long as in most cases the defense reacts realisticly defending the option atleast on heisman level.

[supersigma2of21]

After reading about and seeing those NG blocking videos, it makes it VERY difficult to play 07.

[CFR-116]

After reading about and seeing those NG blocking videos, it makes it VERY difficult to play 07.

Me too Super...in fact I go through this at this time of year....every year.

[supersigma2of21]

Me too Super...in fact I go through this at this time of year....every year.
I look at the vids and see guys being engaged then I try to play NG 07 and see olinemen letting DT-DE combos into the backfield unblocked...maddening.

[CFR-116]

My Ncaa playing right now is at a stand still, and really has been for awhile now so I'm really looking forward to having a hopefully solid game to play. Ya I miss playing, but it is very tough to get into the '07' game at this point....with '08' soooo close![smile]

[Makaveli_Reborn]

Sorry to be paranoid, but when you say "next-gen blocking will be in NCAA 08" you mean the EXACT SAME model as shown in this blog or the NCAA team's own take on it?

[supersigma2of21]

Sorry to be paranoid, but when you say "next-gen blocking will be in NCAA 08" you mean the EXACT SAME model as shone in this blog or the NCAA team's own take on it?
It is my understanding that the NG blocking will be in both games...and honestly...this has been needed for many, many years.

[kidzer0918]

i might have to put the current gen game on layaway and pick up the 360 version. that video and article has me hyped up now.

here is a link to VJ's college profile (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.athletics.mcgill.ca/upload/Leblanc_web.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.athletics.mcgill.ca/varsity_sports_player_profile.ch2%3Fathlete_id%3D2 15&h=240&w=161&sz=22&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=kC5Bp49D7cGwCM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=74&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVJ%2BLeBlanc%2Bfootball%26gbv%3D2%26s vnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG)

[redandblack]

that's his brothers profile.

[rhombic21]

Another video has surfaced showing the option:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFkvqISAnB8

As you can see, this is on varsity level, and the guy playing the game appears to be oblivious to the fullback dive part of the play, but you can see some of the issues that we've been talking about. It's hard to make a completely accurate judgement though based on that video, simply because of the difficulty level (and now that I think about it, the earlier video of OK State was a game that one of the production managers was playing against somebody who he was showing the game off too (who was obviously not a big football game player), so that might have been on varsity as well.

I'm not quite ready to say that the option will be way overpowered to the point of unplayability on '08 (at least against other human players), but it's certainly got some issues that will need to be addressed for '09.

I think the biggest thing that concerns me is actually not the perfect pitches, but rather the way you can see DBs (and LBs in zone coverage) backing up before the QB crosses the LOS on some of the plays. That might be an issue of the skill level though, because I saw Kobra from VG running a bunch of shotgun speed options with WVU vs OU on Heisman, and he was generally lucky to get 5 yards on the play (he sat in practice mode and ran the play 20 or 25 times in a row against the computer).

[ThaHeelsn04]

Another video has surfaced showing the option:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFkvqISAnB8

As you can see, this is on varsity level, and the guy playing the game appears to be oblivious to the fullback dive part of the play, but you can see some of the issues that we've been talking about. It's hard to make a completely accurate judgement though based on that video, simply because of the difficulty level (and now that I think about it, the earlier video of OK State was a game that one of the production managers was playing against somebody who he was showing the game off too (who was obviously not a big football game player), so that might have been on varsity as well.

I'm not quite ready to say that the option will be way overpowered to the point of unplayability on '08 (at least against other human players), but it's certainly got some issues that will need to be addressed for '09.

I think the biggest thing that concerns me is actually not the perfect pitches, but rather the way you can see DBs (and LBs in zone coverage) backing up before the QB crosses the LOS on some of the plays. That might be an issue of the skill level though, because I saw Kobra from VG running a bunch of shotgun speed options with WVU vs OU on Heisman, and he was generally lucky to get 5 yards on the play (he sat in practice mode and ran the play 20 or 25 times in a row against the computer).

I agree with ya Rhombic, and also I see a problem with the QB running into the fullback on the fake dive, should be a smoother exchange than it is..But like you said could be the difficulty level...

[Fluff E Bunny]

Another video has surfaced showing the option:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFkvqISAnB8

As you can see, this is on varsity level, and the guy playing the game appears to be oblivious to the fullback dive part of the play, but you can see some of the issues that we've been talking about. It's hard to make a completely accurate judgement though based on that video, simply because of the difficulty level (and now that I think about it, the earlier video of OK State was a game that one of the production managers was playing against somebody who he was showing the game off too (who was obviously not a big football game player), so that might have been on varsity as well.

I'm not quite ready to say that the option will be way overpowered to the point of unplayability on '08 (at least against other human players), but it's certainly got some issues that will need to be addressed for '09.

I think the biggest thing that concerns me is actually not the perfect pitches, but rather the way you can see DBs (and LBs in zone coverage) backing up before the QB crosses the LOS on some of the plays. That might be an issue of the skill level though, because I saw Kobra from VG running a bunch of shotgun speed options with WVU vs OU on Heisman, and he was generally lucky to get 5 yards on the play (he sat in practice mode and ran the play 20 or 25 times in a row against the computer).

It isn't defended that poorly. Certainly better than last year. But, I have to laugh at them using FSU to run the option with Weatherford.

[rhombic21]

It isn't defended that poorly. Certainly better than last year. But, I have to laugh at them using FSU to run the option with Weatherford.

The effect on that video isn't that impressive, but you can clearly see where somebody with better stick skills, using a QB with good speed could be considerably more effective. Especially if the guy had ever handed off to the FB, which was wide the hell open everytime.

In terms of the defensive pursuit, it seems that most of the problems there are related to zone coverage, so perhaps one possible solution (from a human vs human perspective) would be to run man defenses when you expect option. However, from what I understand, teams sometimes like to avoid man defenses against the option, because it can be fairly easy to lose contain and get out of gaps.

[Fluff E Bunny]

The effect on that video isn't that impressive, but you can clearly see where somebody with better stick skills, using a QB with good speed could be considerably more effective. Especially if the guy had ever handed off to the FB, which was wide the hell open everytime.

In terms of the defensive pursuit, it seems that most of the problems there are related to zone coverage, so perhaps one possible solution (from a human vs human perspective) would be to run man defenses when you expect option. However, from what I understand, teams sometimes like to avoid man defenses against the option, because it can be fairly easy to lose contain and get out of gaps.

Mickey Andrews has used man coverage for ages against traditional option attacks. Only since the advent of the shotgun spread option has he changed to more zone, but even then, the man loves man to man coverage.

FSU tends to have very good LB's though.

[rhombic21]

I'm just recalling several Air Force telecasts, where commentators have talked about teams that run a lot of man defenses having to run more zone against AFA's option attack. That may have something to do with the way they use motion to draw guys away from the play, and to confuse the defense in terms of who is responsible for what. I know that on NCAA CG, zone blitzes were the most effective way to defend the option, because those tended to be more likely to prevent defenders from giving up the outside.

[ThaHeelsn04]

Hey Rhombic this video from IGN shows better option running and the problems with it...I also think that you have to take notice that Drew Weatherford would not normally run the option...http://insider.ign.com/download/video/masterbit/n/ncaa_optionmini_master_062807_qthighwide.mov

[Fluff E Bunny]

Hey Rhombic this video from IGN shows better option running and the problems with it...I also think that you have to take notice that Drew Weatherford should not ever run the option...http://insider.ign.com/download/video/masterbit/n/ncaa_optionmini_master_062807_qthighwide.mov

Fixed.

[CFR-116]

While I wouldn't dare to get into a X's and O's discussion with you guys....but I do agree the playing level I believe is a big factor in this video. In my experience anyway on heisman level, that much open territory up the middle would be few and far between. I've got a pretty good feeling the option plays on heisman level won't be overly easy.

[rhombic21]

Hey Rhombic this video from IGN shows better option running and the problems with it...I also think that you have to take notice that Drew Weatherford would not normally run the option...http://insider.ign.com/download/video/masterbit/n/ncaa_optionmini_master_062807_qthighwide.mov

Isn't that the same video that I posted?

[ThaHeelsn04]

Isn't that the same video that I posted?

It is, just thought the video was clearer and easy to see than that one on youtube...:D

[JeffHCross]

It is, just thought the video was clearer and easy to see than that one on youtube...:DYes, but it also requires being an Insider ;)