IGN Posts their second NCAA Football 08 Preview

[TrickyD]

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/images/ncaafootball08/ign.gifIGN has posted another NCAA Football 08 preview. New information from this actual hands on feedback is a description of the Hit Stick 2.0 which allows you to tackle low by pressing down on the right thumb stick and high by pressing up.

Really love the sounds of that feature, especially after reading their descriptions of the new animations generated for it.

As avid NCAA Football series fans though you have to be scared to death from the concentration on dropped passes in the article. EA says they'll fix it, but we've all played NCAA 05. NCAA 05 wasn't even an adequate coaster with all the dropped passes.

April 26, 2007 - Ah, spring football. It's that innocent time of year when college teams across the country merrily walk through plays in their practice jerseys, the pressures of Division 1 football far behind them. So when we got our hands on NCAA Football 08 for a quick game Thursday, we naturally chose to play the most pressure-packed game out there: Michigan at Ohio State.

NCAA 08 is still relatively early in development, somewhere in mid-Alpha, EA says. Like most football teams this time of year, NCAA 08 has plenty of apparent flaws that need fine-tuning. But like the Wolverines (stacked again) and the ever-dangerous Buckeyes, NCAA 08 shows a lot of promise too.

IGN Sports editor Jon Robinson and I jumped right into the Horseshoe and changed the weather to 11 degrees with slight precipitation. That means snow. Now if the console had been hooked up to Xbox Live, the new real-time weather feature courtesy of the Weather Channel would have selected 65 degrees and cloudy, as it was in Columbus on April 26 at 5:30 p.m. But snow is more fun.

Like in NCAA 07, there is a large emphasis on stadium atmosphere. Although the old Stadium Pulse feature from previous years is not included on the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 version of the game, the Horseshoe was rocking for this rivalry game. On the field, the snow had turned the turf a uniform white -- although the sidelines remained red as if now hadn't landed there at all, a problem in last year's game on the 360.

Gameplay producer Ian Cummings stands right next to us and winces, his favorite phrase of the night being, "That will be fixed." True, there are a lot of early issues that EA promises will be cleaned up, like an excess of dropped passes, sacks and fumbles. But Cummings was taking the opportunity to get our feedback -- he is constantly tuning the game, even in his hotel room, he told us -- and to also show us the things that do work early on: Hit Stick 2.0, gang tackling and gameplay running at 60 frames per second.

First, we have Hit Stick 2.0, which now allows you to tackle low by flicking the right stick down and to tackle high by flicking up. Tackling low is useful for smaller DBs hoping to take down larger backs that are preparing to lower their shoulders and lay the hurt down. Of course, if timed right, the back can hurdle right over the diving defender in what Cummings says is one of the most satisfying moves in the game. Or you can time it wrong like we did and trigger one of the many excellent tackling animations.

On one kickoff return, a tight end fielded a short kick and turned up field. Feeling brave, I hit the hurdle button and soared into the air, hoping to get outside. Oops. A salivating Wolverine ran straight through the ball carrier's legs, flipping him over until he landed on his head, Don Beebe style.

Even with just one game under our belts it's easy to see how far tackling has come. There are awesome mid-air collisions as well as an array of gang tackles. Obviously the most satisfying hit is watching as a back is held up by a few players, fighting for yards, when a crazed linebacker flies in to clean up. More than once a player limped off the field with an injury. Yeah, this is Ohio State and Michigan all right.

Running the ball also looks great. Although the D-line is tuned a bit difficult right now so even a three-man front can stop a run out of the power-I, players move and cut with the ball much more realistically. It's a subtle difference, but the simple action of dropping a shoulder and planting a foot makes playing NCAA 08 a much "twitchier" experience than last season when the game relied much too heavily on long-winded animations.

You'll also notice a lot more control with a receiver as soon as you catch a pass. Say you're running an out pattern. You can catch the ball, stop on a dime and turn right back into the middle of the field to avoid a corner that is shading you to the outside. Right now the action is so fast it feels as if it defies physics compared to the weighty physics system in 07. This is all contingent on the receiver actually catching the ball. J-Rob and I sat dumbfounded as balls bounced right off receivers' facemasks and into the turf. "That'll be fixed," grumbled Cummings.

And just about the time coverboy Jared Zabransky walked in to play his new game for the first time, we found a few of the trick plays hiding in Boise State's playbook. Under Hail Mary you'll find Circus, the hook-and-lateral play the Bronco's called against Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl on fourth-and-forever to convert a first down and set up the famous Statue of Liberty play. That's in there too.

Visually, 60 frames-per-second make a world of difference. It's good to see that after all the criticism for its first crop of sports titles on the 360 and PS3, games like Madden, NCAA and NBA Live will finally hit 60 fps. Other than the frame rate, there really isn't much to distinguish NCAA 08 from NCAA 07 -- it looks almost exactly the same. We know because we utilized the new photo album feature to save snap shots of in-game action. The game will actually automatically save pics of big plays from your last game and automatically insert them onto the jumbotron in the front end menu. But the CPU hasn't been properly programmed for this yet and kept taking interesting close ups of players' butts.

It's difficult to gauge NCAA 08 because there is still so much work to be done. This is apparent as J-Rob won the game 12-6 which would never have happened if my receivers caught more balls with their hands instead of their faces. Or that's what I tell myself so I can sleep at night. But if the problems we pointed out are fixed (and EA says they will be), we think NCAA 08 is going to shoot right to the top of our draft board.

We'll have more info on NCAA 08 soon as we get more time with the game. In the meantime, check out the media links below to see NCAA 08 in action.

[CFR-116]

The one thing I never understood was, how these games could have so far to go because their very early in their devolement, when the game is due out in just acouple of months. I don't mean to be a smart a$$....but whats going on for the first nine months after the last release? I don't know.....I'm pretty dumb but, at this point you'd think they would be at the fine tuning stage vs the game is still full of problems that need to be fixed....I just don't understand.

[gschwendt]

The one thing I never understood was, how these games could have so far to go because their very early in their devolement, when the game is due out in just acouple of months. I don't mean to be a smart a$$....but whats going on for the first nine months after the last release? I don't know.....I'm pretty dumb but, at this point you'd think they would be at the fine tuning stage vs the game is still full of problems that need to be fixed....I just don't understand.

Well, I can imagine that they leave some of the easy tweaks for later in the development process simply because as they're making changes/additions, it might effect the overall gameplay so they leave the tweaks for the end. Just a thought...

[CFR-116]

Well, I can imagine that they leave some of the easy tweaks for later in the development process simply because as they're making changes/additions, it might effect the overall gameplay so they leave the tweaks for the end. Just a thought...

I guess the way it came across to me Gschwendt was that the game had a LONG way to go yet...which is kinda scary with just 10 weeks before release. I don't mean to argue with ya Gschwendt but...even the gameplay producer was using the term "fixed" not "tweaked". And it sounds like he was using that term over and over, that has me plenty worried. I guess I'm just a worry-wart, but when overall even the guys from IGN didn't really seem all that impressed...that really has me in a cold sweat.[laugh]

[cdj]

I always thought by now the game was very near completion...it sounds like they have some work to do. Though, hopefully it's a sign of adding a lot of new features and taking the time to fine-tune them.

[CFR-116]

I always thought by now the game was very near completion.

That was my thinking too Cdj. Sounds like they have a ways to go yet...and not alot of time to get things straighten out. A goodthing was though, that the IGN guys didn't seem to sugar coat where the game is at, at this point....thats kinda refreshing. I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill but....with so many things that need attention at this stage, it kind of makes it more understandable that the game has remaining "bugs" and flaws when it is released.

[Keith1212]

I guess the way it came across to me Gschwendt was that the game had a LONG way to go yet...which is kinda scary with just 10 weeks before release. I don't mean to argue with ya Gschwendt but...even the gameplay producer was using the term "fixed" not "tweaked". And it sounds like he was using that term over and over, that has me plenty worried. I guess I'm just a worry-wart, but when overall even the guys from IGN didn't really seem all that impressed...that really has me in a cold sweat.[laugh]
You're looking at it the right way CFR. They shouldn't be having these problems right now most likely. They're probably behind schedule right now and at least 2 of those 3 major bugs(likely drops and fumbles) will be in the game on release and once again we'll be left with a POS game. We'll just have to wait and see. I was right about next-gen last year though. Can I be 2 for 2?

[Gunner04again]

"...the D-line is tuned a bit difficult right now so even a three-man front can stop a run out of the power-I"

......a bit?

[cmq]

You're looking at it the right way CFR. They shouldn't be having these problems right now most likely. They're probably behind schedule right now and at least 2 of those 3 major bugs(likely drops and fumbles) will be in the game on release and once again we'll be left with a POS game. We'll just have to wait and see. I was right about next-gen last year though. Can I be 2 for 2?
Right. You and Rhombic should get together and start a programming empire.

[rhombic21]

I think they'll have that stuff fixed, actually.

If it was something that they were worried about not getting fixed in the final game, they wouldn't have allowed a hands on viewing for gamesites, knowing that they were going to write about it.

I think the main thing at this point is to get the animations in the game and make sure that there aren't any stupid things going on there. I bet it's relatively simple (ie takes less than a week) to fix WR drops. The one that's a little more worrying is the OL blocking, but that depends on the reason for the problem. If the reason for the problem is that DL are just breaking blocks too easily, then that's probably a simple fix. If the reason is that OL are not even engaging relevant defenders, then it's probably more complicated.

When does the game actually go gold? The end of June? They still have almost 2 months to fix the game.

[DonohoFlnkr]

I think they'll have that stuff fixed, actually.

If it was something that they were worried about not getting fixed in the final game, they wouldn't have allowed a hands on viewing for gamesites, knowing that they were going to write about it.

I think the main thing at this point is to get the animations in the game and make sure that there aren't any stupid things going on there. I bet it's relatively simple (ie takes less than a week) to fix WR drops. The one that's a little more worrying is the OL blocking, but that depends on the reason for the problem. If the reason for the problem is that DL are just breaking blocks too easily, then that's probably a simple fix. If the reason is that OL are not even engaging relevant defenders, then it's probably more complicated.

When does the game actually go gold? The end of June? They still have almost 2 months to fix the game.

I agree with you on that one.
I also think that with E3 being later and less important to this game this year, it gives EA much more time to work on these things. It was a playable build where as I believe in previous years it was more or less finished in order to get the E3 publicity going in the positive rather than having people tell all their friends that the WRs can't catch and the OL can't block.
As for the minor tweaks, I also agree with you and the branching animation engine probably took the most time/labor intensive design to make and the other things are small in comparision to the overall improvement that this engine will (POSSIBLY) provide.

[nolesandgators]

It looks like they tweaked the player models a bit, which is nice, but the shoulder pads look comically huge. 60 fps will be nice though.

[rhombic21]

It looks like they tweaked the player models a bit, which is nice, but the shoulder pads look comically huge. 60 fps will be nice though.

I agree. The players look like they have no neck, and it looks like they're slumping or something. They all have a hunchback. And then the sleeves are way off.

[nolesandgators]

I agree. The players look like they have no neck, and it looks like they're slumping or something. They all have a hunchback. And then the sleeves are way off.
I know people say it's picking nits and that it's all about gameplay, but the player model issues are a huge sticking point for me on the next gens. Looks like they've made improvements, but they definitely aren't there yet. Sadly, I seriously doubt we'll see any more changes to the player models before this year's game comes out.

[DonohoFlnkr]

I know people say it's picking nits and that it's all about gameplay, but the player model issues are a huge sticking point for me on the next gens. Looks like they've made improvements, but they definitely aren't there yet. Sadly, I seriously doubt we'll see any more changes to the player models before this year's game comes out.

I'll take another year of awkward looking player models if they have improved the AI and for the addition of branching animations. I'm not saying this game is going to be the greatest in the series, but it's looking more and more like they are heading in the right direction (as opposed to the last few games since 04 where they have seemingly regressed in AI and direction of the games)

[CFR-116]

For me I really need this '08' game to be at least sort of a breakout game....a breakout from what we've been getting the last few years, including Ncaa '07' new gen. I agree that the series has been sliding down the hole the last few years, which is hard to believe a game would get worse as time when by. Although '07' last gen. was a slight improvement in many peoples minds. I still can't even bear to boot up '07' new gen. Christ...it makes my guts hurt.

I'm kinda disappointed to read the one review that claims Ncaa '08' looks exactly like '07'....thats going to be a bitter reminder for me of the Ncaa game I couldn't even stand to play any longer. That sounds like something I'll have to try to get past, and not start judging the game by it's apperance because of it's simular look to '07'. With the pictures of the '08' game I've noticed afew good signs, the shine of the jerseys seem to be gone, and it looks like some improvements with the player models faces and better detail of the arms and legs. And as someone else pointed out, clear face gaurds....I never really liked the dark ones.

Ya the '08' game is very important to me that it turns out to be at least a strong turn in the right direction, and the series seems to be back on track. I just can't stand the thought of yet another huge disappointment on how the Ncaa game turn out. I have two dates in mind....July 17 and Aug 14, I really hope that the game that comes out in July will render the other not needed.

[IowaWolverine]

While I think that most of these things will be fixed, it does worry me that IGN of all people is writing something laced with negativity about this game.

[JeffHCross]

I certainly wouldn't call it "laced with neagtivity." Maybe "honest".

[BDawg35]

As avid NCAA Football series fans though you have to be scared to death from the concentration on dropped passes in the article. EA says they'll fix it, but we've all played NCAA 05. NCAA 05 wasn't even an adequate coaster with all the dropped passes.
I couldn't even use it as a coaster. My drinks kept slipping off it.

I would bet a week's salary that they don't fix it. EA has always had more drops in NCAA than I care to see (this year wasn't horrible). EA also has a lot of bugs in the game that you swear that a tester would have caught, but that somehow stay in the game. I bring to you the NCAA 2005 beachball effect, NCAA 2007's overblown momentum, among others.

While I think that most of these things will be fixed, it does worry me that IGN of all people is writing something laced with negativity about this game.
I wouldn't call it laced with negativity. I am shocked that IGN would point out a flaw. Usually the reviews written by people granted this type of access by EA are over-the-top in their praise of the game. It's like these people feel so grateful to get an early hands-on with the game that they don't want to jeopardize getting this privilege in the future. I don't believe any reviews until I read them from people like us, but by then I've already plunked down my 50 bucks.

[talon owl]

Why is Chauncey Washington emaciated?

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/783/783730/ncaa-football-08-20070426051546983.jpg

[wvfan14]

Why is Chauncey Washington emaciated?

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/783/783730/ncaa-football-08-20070426051546983.jpg

"That will be fixed."

[glare]

[IowaWolverine]

I wouldn't call it laced with negativity. I am shocked that IGN would point out a flaw. Usually the reviews written by people granted this type of access by EA are over-the-top in their praise of the game. It's like these people feel so grateful to get an early hands-on with the game that they don't want to jeopardize getting this privilege in the future. I don't believe any reviews until I read them from people like us, but by then I've already plunked down my 50 bucks.
OK, fine. I guess that phrase was too strong. What you said here is what I meant.

[DonohoFlnkr]

[IMGA="left"]
Gameplay producer Ian Cummings stands right next to us and winces, his favorite phrase of the night being, "That will be fixed." True, there are a lot of early issues that EA promises will be cleaned up, like an excess of dropped passes, sacks and fumbles. But Cummings was taking the opportunity to get our feedback -- he is constantly tuning the game, even in his hotel room, he told us -- and to also show us the things that do work early on: Hit Stick 2.0, gang tackling and gameplay running at 60 frames per second.



Perhaps by highlighting these words we can believe that the two games are going to be more similar in gameplay? My fingers are still corssed, though not as tightly.
I also took note in the Madden article that they are redesigning the Defensive Zone AI. (Look for it on the 3rd page of the Madden write-up)

[UMCanes50]

The one thing I never understood was, how these games could have so far to go because their very early in their devolement, when the game is due out in just acouple of months. I don't mean to be a smart a$$....but whats going on for the first nine months after the last release? I don't know.....I'm pretty dumb but, at this point you'd think they would be at the fine tuning stage vs the game is still full of problems that need to be fixed....I just don't understand.



I don't have the programming experience of CMQ, just some QBasic and Darkbasic, but i might know enough basic conceptwise to answer that...

Early on, they probably set the framework for how everything runs, relates together, etc... Essentially, setting the foundation. This would involve a lot of the AI, major stuff involving animations, the basic nature of game physics, etc..



A lot of things that seem like major bugs at this point can probably be tweaked just by changing a few variables here and there. For example, say WRs drop too many passes. That might be as simple as changing the "unmodified WR catching % variable" (the % of the time a WR catches the ball, independendt of modifiers like catch rating, being hit, thrown behind him, rain, etc...) from .80 to .90. Essentially, internal sliders.

IF it werent for their history with both of these problems, drops and fumbles wouldnt bother me at this point. That being said, the fact that they do have a history makes me a little nervous.


I'm more worried about 3 man lines stopping power I. That sounds like it cant just be tuning and would have to involve some AI issues, but that might not be the case.




Going back to being negative as usual though: Could "that will be fixed" become the EA equivlent to Blizzard's "Working as intended?"

[westsidetide]

I
Going back to being negative as usual though: Could "that will be fixed" become the EA equivlent to Blizzard's "Working as intended?"

More like "an undocumented feature."

[JeffHCross]

Early on, they probably set the framework for how everything runs, relates together, etc... Essentially, setting the foundation. This would involve a lot of the AI, major stuff involving animations, the basic nature of game physics, etc..You are wise beyond your (programming) years, young grasshopper.

Hit it right on the head.

[DVALLEY]

For example, say WRs drop too many passes. That might be as simple as changing the "unmodified WR catching % variable" (the % of the time a WR catches the ball, independendt of modifiers like catch rating, being hit, thrown behind him, rain, etc...) from .80 to .90. Essentially, internal sliders.

I think that if it was a matter of just a WR dropping a pass then that would be an easy fix. But they were talking about the ball hitting the WR in the facemask. That sounds more dynamic to me. A major flaw since the beginning of player animation has been that animations trump physical dynamics.

For example, everyone will recall a running back going right through any lineman while in the midst of an animation.

Unless EA can solve this problem, the game will always have that "This is BULLSHiT" feel.

[DonohoFlnkr]

I think that if it was a matter of just a WR dropping a pass then that would be an easy fix. But they were talking about the ball hitting the WR in the facemask. That sounds more dynamic to me. A major flaw since the beginning of player animation has been that animations trump physical dynamics.

For example, everyone will recall a running back going right through any lineman while in the midst of an animation.

Unless EA can solve this problem, the game will always have that "This is BULLSHiT" feel.

If you watch the interview with Ian Cummings, he talks at length on this. The RB will get to the line and should push the line or be pushed backwards by the line now. To paraphrase, they have a totally different engine with new mechanics and animations that can be broken by a number of factors (ie, break tackle button, defenders coming in to push the pile or strip the ball, etc.,...)

[JeffHCross]

I think that if it was a matter of just a WR dropping a pass then that would be an easy fix. But they were talking about the ball hitting the WR in the facemask. That sounds more dynamic to me.Maybe, maybe not. If your hands are in front of your face and you don't catch the ball ...

Or it could be because the catch animation wasn't triggering in time. There's many easily fixable reasons why the ball might be hitting the facemask.

[boarderkid889]

are the players still gonna run weird?

[CFR-116]

are the players still gonna run weird?

The gameplay producer has said that the run animations will look far more realistic due to this "IK" tech they've added. At the time he was speaking about Madden....but I'll take the risk of assuming that this "IK" will be added to Ncaa as well.

[DVALLEY]

Maybe, maybe not. If your hands are in front of your face and you don't catch the ball ...

Or it could be because the catch animation wasn't triggering in time. There's many easily fixable reasons why the ball might be hitting the facemask.

I'm not doubting that it will be fixed, (cough)....2005...., I just think it may be a little more difficult that just a few tweaks. Especially as we head into May. I was joking above, but they really can't afford another 2005 in the series.

[JeffHCross]

Agreed. I was just saying that without knowing why they're boucing off, we can't know how hard the fix will be. If it's either of the two things I mentioned, it shouldn't be difficult to fix.

[TubbyChooChoo]

One thing I don't like about drops and fumbles is the fact that they seem to use these items to make the game more difficult.

It's obvious to me that when you play on "heisman" the game is supposed to be harder and thus they use these things to do just that.
They seem to make it harder by artificially creating more drops and fumbles.

If you drop and fumble more...it's harder to win...simple.

Makes the game unrealistic..but harder, the easy way.

[Mr. Option]

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/890/890431/vids_1.html

Developer Interview.

[JeffHCross]

Developer Interview.Developer Video Interview (April 17, 2007)Little late there bud ;)

[Mr. Option]

sorry.

[JeffHCross]

It happens. rhombic posted it and we started discussing it here (http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia/showthread.php?t=48588&page=2), if you want to join the discussion.

[coogrfan]

http://maddenfb.com/blogs/game/archive/2007/05/01/the-perks-of-working-at-ea.aspx

So as many of you may have read about already, I was lucky enough to showcase NCAA 08 (http://www.easports.com/ncaa08/) at our draft event up in New York City. We hosted a 6 hour premiere of hands-on gameplay at Tao Restaurant...Being that it was very early, there were still a lot of bugs, so those frustrated me a bit. Outside of that, I think overall it went really well. Even for the annoyances (there were a ridiculous amount of fumbles and dropped passes in that build – both of which are already fixed)...

Hopefully this is accurate.

[JeffHCross]

I trust him. His blog is amazingly honest.

[CFR-116]

For some reason I trust him too. I feel as though he had the guts to atleast say that the first few releases of both Madden and Ncaa just weren't very good. But to kinda balance things out here....doesn't it always seem like even EA themself's sorta discredit the last release as they built up the up comming one? I mean, they point out some of last years failings in the game....but wouldn't it be kinda nice if these problems were fixed if possible a year earlier?....vs mentioning them now.

Ya there's something about this Ian Cummings that I like as well. I most likely shouldn't say this but....if someone flat out said to Ian..."Your game suxs balls."...I've got a feeling it would bother him some. Were as with Jeff Luhr, I just don't get that same feeling. Thats not a fair thing for me to say....but it is how I feel. Nothing would built up my hope more about Ncaa '08' than a video interview with Ian, and have him explain about really what we can expect from the '08' game, vs what we've gotten so far. I need something at this point to light the fires about the coming game....I guess I need to be assured that the best possible effort is being made with Ncaa as well as with Madden.