My reaction to NCAA Football 08's new "Leadership mode" feature

[rhombic21]

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia/customavatars/avatar71_3.gifNCAA Football 08's new leadership feature is stupid and pointless.

I think they could have added many other features that would have been just as good for the "back of the box", but would have also added something to the series that I might actually enjoy. Most namely, they desperately need to add AD mode (build a stadium, facilities, etc....) and some type of coaching career mode that is similar to the College Hoops 2K series' (hire assistants, gain personal attributes, climb the ladder to bigger schools, etc...). They also REALLY need to add a play editor. Even if they only add what Madden has, that would be a step in the right direction. If they did that people could create their own trick plays.

Sadly, I've gotten to the point where I would almost settle for EA just taking past features out of the game.

Who here likes the impact camera? Who likes the punt return camera? Impact players? Momentum? Discipline system? The fact that you literally cannot audible at all on the road? Then there are other features like "Race for the Heisman" which are completely useless to me.

I just wish ONE time, EA would demonstrate some kind of understanding about the sport of college football. College football is about the PROGRAMS. It's about the schools. It's about the entire team, the coaching staff, and the fanbase. Stop giving us "features" that focus on star players. That is not what makes college football great. People watch the NFL to see star players. They watch college football to root for their favorite school. They watch it for the pageantry and the rivalries. The traditions and the passion. EA has done very little, IMO, to focus on those things. They did HFA and rivalry games several years ago and then stopped. Since then, everything has been focused on star players. Whether you call it "impact players", "big man on campus", or "leadership control", it's basically the same concept. You're taking focus off of the entire team and putting it on one or two players.

And how stupid is it that college coaches are legendary among the fanbases, and yet we have ZERO features that deal with them? In large part THOSE are the people that the fans worship, not individual players.

The above entry was found in a thread on the Utopia forums and tagged for inclusion on the ncaastrategies.com (http://www.ncaastrategies.com) homepage.

[Wooly]

^^^ ...the truth!

[Mugg]

This is the first year that I've decided to not preorder/buy NCAA the first day it's out. I'm waiting at least a week or two (hopefully, if I can withstand my urge for anything about college football), just so I don't add to EA's misconception that they can do no wrong.

EA has deemed themselves The Pope of the video game sports market; they art infallible, don't dare question them (say, with a video game that challenges their monopoly) or they will smote you (buy your company out).

[bruce wayne]

This is the first year that I've decided to not preorder/buy NCAA the first day it's out. I'm waiting at least a week or two (hopefully, if I can withstand my urge for anything about college football), just so I don't add to EA's misconception that they can do no wrong.

EA has deemed themselves The Pope of the video game sports market; they art infallible, don't dare question them (say, with a video game that challenges their monopoly) or they will smote you (buy your company out).

I haven't bought a new version of this game since 2002. I would much rather support a local game trading store than EA. Until I see a united, ''This game is the SHIT!!!'' post, supported by a vast majority of people, I will continue to buy the game used.

[Fluff E Bunny]

My feeling at this point is that I won't buy the game unless there is a big demand for having the playbooks done like I have in the past. If there is support for that I will purchase the game and do the work for that and sell a playbook viewing application via the Utopia store (to make it worth mine and cmq/tricky's bother).

I suppose I should put up a poll to gauge interest, huh?

[Gatorguy91]

Yes. Why do we need a leadership thing? I mean, it's better then not having it, but pointless when you come down to it. College Football is not about the players. College football is about the Programs. If a school such as Michigan or Nebraska is having a bad year, it should get alot of attention.

[CFR-116]

This is the first year that I've decided to not preorder/buy NCAA the first day it's out.

Me as well Mugg. I know if I buy it, I'll spent weeks if not months trying to force myself to play it, just because it's a college football game. I just refuse to put myself through that any longer...it's just not worth it anymore. In years past, I'd already have paid for the game in full at GameStop, and be counting the days down to release day, and the fun drive to the mall that day in mid-July. Ncaa '07' for the new gen. systems put an end to all that. Now, it'll be waiting to rent it at Video vision, and most likely be glad I did.;)

[cmq]

I just wish ONE time, EA would demonstrate some kind of understanding about the sport of college football. College football is about the PROGRAMS. It's about the schools. It's about the entire team, the coaching staff, and the fanbase. Stop giving us "features" that focus on star players. That is not what makes college football great. People watch the NFL to see star players. They watch college football to root for their favorite school. They watch it for the pageantry and the rivalries. The traditions and the passion. EA has done very little, IMO, to focus on those things. They did HFA and rivalry games several years ago and then stopped. Since then, everything has been focused on star players. Whether you call it "impact players", "big man on campus", or "leadership control", it's basically the same concept. You're taking focus off of the entire team and putting it on one or two players.
I wish you could pin this paragraph on the walls of every programmer's and project manager's cubicle at EA.

[drew4008]

Sadly, I've gotten to the point where I would almost settle for EA just taking past features out of the game.

Who here likes the impact camera? Who likes the punt return camera? Impact players? Momentum? Discipline system? The fact that you literally cannot audible at all on the road? Then there are other features like "Race for the Heisman" which are completely useless to me.
Hit the nail on the head here. And just reading that makes you realize how pathetic EA/Tiburon has been with this series lately. Most of the gamers actually dislike and want their crappy new additions removed, I can't think of many other series that have sunk to that level.

[BasinBictory]

http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia/customavatars/avatar71_3.gif

I just wish ONE time, EA would demonstrate some kind of understanding about the sport of college football. College football is about the PROGRAMS. It's about the schools. It's about the entire team, the coaching staff, and the fanbase. Stop giving us "features" that focus on star players. That is not what makes college football great. People watch the NFL to see star players. They watch college football to root for their favorite school. They watch it for the pageantry and the rivalries. The traditions and the passion. EA has done very little, IMO, to focus on those things. They did HFA and rivalry games several years ago and then stopped. Since then, everything has been focused on star players. Whether you call it "impact players", "big man on campus", or "leadership control", it's basically the same concept. You're taking focus off of the entire team and putting it on one or two players.

And how stupid is it that college coaches are legendary among the fanbases, and yet we have ZERO features that deal with them? In large part THOSE are the people that the fans worship, not individual players.

The above entry was found in a thread on the Utopia forums and tagged for inclusion on the ncaastrategies.com (http://www.ncaastrategies.com) homepage.

And this is why CFB > NFL. ;)

Yeah - I don't think the programmers fully understand this. I wonder if there are enough bona-fide college football fans in EA's programming community who fully understand that the mystique of college football is that each program (and indeed, each conference) has it's own unique personality that is the sum total not only of the program's history of wins and losses, or the personality of its coaches or the great players that wore their colors, but the fan base, and what that particular school means to its particular region and fanbase, and the reputation of the university as well.

[MtneerManiac]

As far as audibles goes, I wish when you go to audible, you have the whole playbook to choose from, and not three freakin' plays.

Does EA have exclusive rights to NCAAFB? If 2k/ESPN ever made a NCAA Football game, it'd blow EA's right out of the water. ESPN NFL and the 2K Football's were A LOT better than the Madden's out at the time. And, College Hoops >>>>>> March Madness.

[BasinBictory]

As far as audibles goes, I wish when you go to audible, you have the whole playbook to choose from, and not three freakin' plays.



Well - there's only so many buttons on the controller, you know? Besides, I think most real-life teams won't have more than 10 actual plays that they audible to.

[Wooly]

As far as audibles goes, I wish when you go to audible, you have the whole playbook to choose from, and not three freakin' plays.

Does EA have exclusive rights to NCAAFB? If 2k/ESPN ever made a NCAA Football game, it'd blow EA's right out of the water. ESPN NFL and the 2K Football's were A LOT better than the Madden's out at the time. And, College Hoops >>>>>> March Madness.

EA bought the rights to the team and conference logos and such. No one could make a real CFB game without using the real teams and their logos. So EA has a real monopoly, even if it's not exactly like the NFL monopoly they bought.

[dawgsniper]

i agree with everything you guys are saying ,but i will still buy the game and play it. i do just wish it was about the programs more than just the indivual stuff

[remogunz]

I agree with you guys but I have one question and that question is does anyone from EA every contact anyone from sites such as this one?

[cdj]

I agree with you guys but I have one question and that question is does anyone from EA every contact anyone from sites such as this one?

They do now....check out this thread (http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia/showthread.php?t=48143). The new EA community leader (Will) has been very open to communication, surfs here often, and posts here occasionally.

[remogunz]

They do now....check out this thread (http://www.ncaastrategies.com/utopia/showthread.php?t=48143). The new EA community leader (Will) has been very open to communication, surfs here often, and posts here occasionally.



Thanks

[wvfan14]

This Leadership Control thing has the chance to be a big boom, if EA has worked it right and not pushed it too hard like 'Momentum' (which if you asked me, had no purpose and made no difference).

For instance, this year when Steve Slaton was limited with his wrist injury in particularly the UL, USF, and GT games, Pat White stepped up and led his team. Although it was too hard to lead a comeback in the given time against UL, and I will never figure out what happened on the USF game, but White won the GT by himself (and Owen Schmitt [glare] ).

If EA can play this perfect, they can get a certain player to make a big play in the 2-minute stretch. For instance, in past games, if you had a Peyton Manning as your QB and you were down by a TD with 1:30 left, Manning would play as he had all game. Now maybe, you can get that extra burst of performance that you see leaders posess in the big situations.



What I really want to see though, is a feature that helps the 'little guys', or diamonds in the rough. For example, when I recruit a RB out of WV, who is little known but a decent 3-star product, and he makes the cut and is a 70 OVR, chances are he isn't going to ever get considerable playing time. Some may call it a 'Potential' factor, but I would like to see when that one player does get his chance, that his stats will increase (or something) that will allow him to shine, which would lead to bigger things.

Alot of great players started out like that, such as Tiki Barber in NY, Marques Colston in NO, even Steve Slaton and Pat White in WV (who were both backups at 2005's start). It would make recruiting those small town guys even more valuable.

[sayo]

This Leadership Control thing has the chance to be a big boom, if EA has worked it right and not pushed it too hard like 'Momentum' (which if you asked me, had no purpose and made no difference).


Not gonna happen.

[wvfan14]

Not gonna happen.

Well, there's always a chance.

Although, I can't remember when they did do something right like that to the gameplay, unless you count Impact Players.

[sayo]

Well, there's always a chance.

Although, I can't remember when they did do something right like that to the gameplay, unless you count Impact Players.

Impact players were WAY overdone. WTF are you talking about? They kinda got it right later but definitely not off the bat.

[wvfan14]

Impact players were WAY overdone. WTF are you talking about? They kinda got it right later but definitely not off the bat.

Reading is a skill.

That's why I said "if you count"...

[sayo]

umm To me, your sentence reads that you can't remember a time they got it right unless you count impact players. ? As in they got it right with impact players. That's how my dumb-ass High School diploma reads it. Call me crazy.

[wvfan14]

umm To me, your sentence reads that you can't remember a time they got it right unless you count impact players. ? As in they got it right with impact players. That's how my dumb-ass High School diploma reads it. Call me crazy.


I will call you crazy then. [laugh]

It reads just like that, but I was saying that Impact Players were kind of a so-so job.

Which is exactly how it reads.

[sayo]

I will call you crazy then. [laugh]

It reads just like that, but I was saying that Impact Players were kind of a so-so job.

Which is exactly how it reads.

Well I'll call you crazy back cause initially, EA didn't even do a "so-so" job with Impact players. It sucked. :p

[wvfan14]

Well I'll call you crazy back cause initially, EA didn't even do a "so-so" job with Impact players. It sucked. :p


Well, that is your opinion, so I respect that.

But back to the point. My heart is hoping that EA will introduce a "Potential" feature for diamond in the rough players or backups that get that one shot (which I explained in more detail a few posts earlier).

[adder30]

What I really want to see though, is a feature that helps the 'little guys', or diamonds in the rough. For example, when I recruit a RB out of WV, who is little known but a decent 3-star product, and he makes the cut and is a 70 OVR, chances are he isn't going to ever get considerable playing time. Some may call it a 'Potential' factor, but I would like to see when that one player does get his chance, that his stats will increase (or something) that will allow him to shine, which would lead to bigger things.


I like the idea of "potential", but I hate the idea of rewarding good play with permanent attribute bonuses. This makes good players better and bad players always bad. USC would end every year with nothing but 99 ovr rated starters if this were the case (much like what happens in Madden 07 after 3 or 4 years in a franchise).

In my opinion:
Improvement should either be completely random
-or-
Even better, make this "potential" rating affected by coach ratings. If college coaches just had discipline, training and recruiting RATINGS instead of the awkward points system, small time players would be more likely to succeed if that had coaches that developed the "diamonds in the rough". Iowa's coaching staff could consistently turn 3* OL into stud NFL prospects, Spurrier could take any decent QB and make him stellar and Penn State would be a linebacker factory, without having to worry about a local, talentless prospect at a tiny, irrelevant school turning into heisman caliber just because he gets a lot of reps (or a few reps at critical times).

[KazooNole]

Even better, make this "potential" rating affected by coach ratings. If college coaches just had discipline, training and recruiting RATINGS instead of the awkward points system, small time players would be more likely to succeed if that had coaches that developed the "diamonds in the rough". Iowa's coaching staff could consistently turn 3* OL into stud NFL prospects, Spurrier could take any decent QB and make him stellar and Penn State would be a linebacker factory, without having to worry about a local, talentless prospect at a tiny, irrelevant school turning into heisman caliber just because he gets a lot of reps (or a few reps at critical times).

This isn't a bad idea. Heck, on NHL 2k7, after I pick a team and a coach, I have a certain amount of cash to spend getting offensive, defensive, special teams, minor league and training coaches.

So- My idea

Depending on the star power of your school and your HC star power, you get "X" amount of points to spend making your staff. Your coaches will improve or decrease depending on how your team does.

Offensive Coordinators, with ratings for run offense (gameday boost or decrease to those ratings on your team), pass offense, O-line play and training (which would impact how much your freshman improve.) and discipline, which would have an impact on how many guys on that side of the ball have issues. Optionally, they could also have their own playbooks that they'd bring when you hire them.

Defensive Coodinators - same thing, and optionally they could be better at one set then any other, say 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 4-4.

Special Teams coach

Recruiting coach- The better the recruiting coach, the more detail you'll get on a player you're recruiting and how they look toward you to start with.

Every so often, when your coaches are too good, one leaves to take a job elsewhere and you have to find a new one that meshes with your style of play and players.

And if you get Jeff Bowden, your players lose skill every year.

As a side effect, this could "help" keep mid-major teams down and out since they'd have to replace new coaches every couple of years.

[Wooly]

This isn't a bad idea. Heck, on NHL 2k7, after I pick a team and a coach, I have a certain amount of cash to spend getting offensive, defensive, special teams, minor league and training coaches.

So- My idea

Depending on the star power of your school and your HC star power, you get "X" amount of points to spend making your staff. Your coaches will improve or decrease depending on how your team does.

Offensive Coordinators, with ratings for run offense (gameday boost or decrease to those ratings on your team), pass offense, O-line play and training (which would impact how much your freshman improve.) and discipline, which would have an impact on how many guys on that side of the ball have issues. Optionally, they could also have their own playbooks that they'd bring when you hire them.

Defensive Coodinators - same thing, and optionally they could be better at one set then any other, say 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 4-4.

Special Teams coach

Recruiting coach- The better the recruiting coach, the more detail you'll get on a player you're recruiting and how they look toward you to start with.

Every so often, when your coaches are too good, one leaves to take a job elsewhere and you have to find a new one that meshes with your style of play and players.

And if you get Jeff Bowden, your players lose skill every year.

As a side effect, this could "help" keep mid-major teams down and out since they'd have to replace new coaches every couple of years.

Good ideas there KazooNole. But I want the option to create a coach too, so that I can use my custom playsbooks too.