MM: Inside the Madness

[cdj]

Since I'm about the only person here with MM, I imagine this thread will consist of me talking to myself. [laugh]

My goal here is to see how messed up the RPI, Bubble Watch, and selection for the NCAA Tournament is in this game. (I know it's not good, but I would like a clearer picture.) I have a feeling that this "experiment" will also show that the simulation structure inside this game is too 'random' leading to excessive post-season upsets.

I plan on simulating several seasons to see
1) the conf. tourney champions
2) the teams selected to the NCAA Tournament
3) Number of upsets in the tournament

If anyone has ideas/comments to make this more productive, I'm all ears. Otherwise, this will probably be a useless thread with a bunch of useless information.

[cdj]

TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS (Seed in parentheses):

America East: (2) Boston def. (5) Maine
Atlantic 10: (2) UMass def. (2) La Salle [Apparently each side/division of the A10 tourney is seeded?]
ACC: (3) NC State def. (9) Virginia Tech
Atl. Sun: (1) Jacksonville def. (3) Kennesaw State
Big Ten: (1) Indiana def. (2) Illinois
Big 12: (3) Texas def. (4) Iowa State
Big East: (1) Villanova def. (2) Louisville
Big Sky: (1) Montana State def. (2) Northern Arizona
Big South: (1) High Point def. (2) Winthrop
Big West: (1) Cal-State Northridge def. (2) UC Irvine
Colonial: (3) George Mason def. (8) Georgia State
C-USA: (1) UAB def. (3) Houston
Horizon: (3) UIC def. (5) Cleveland State
MAAC: (5) Manhattan def. (2) Iona
MAC: (3) Kent State def. (4) Bowling Green
Mid. Continent: (2) Valparaiso def. (1) Oral Roberts
MEAC: (5) Hampton def. (3) Delaware
MVC: (4) Northern Iowa def. (3) Illinois State
MWC: (1) BYU def. (6) Air Force
NEC: (1) Fairleigh Dickinson def. (2) Monmouth
Ohio Valley: (4) Eastern Kentucky def. (2) Jacksonville State
Pac-10: (1) Washington def. (7) Stanford
Patriot: (5) Holy Cross def. (3) American
SEC: (1) Mississippi State def. (4) Ole Miss
SOCON: (2) Western Carolina def. (2) Georgia Southern
Southland: (1) Lamar def. (6) Texas-Arlington
SWAC: (1) Jackson State def. (3) Ark.-Pine Bluff
Sun Belt: (2) South Alabama def. (1) Troy
WCC: (2) Gonzaga def. (5) Loyola Marymount
WAC: (1) Nevada def. (3) Fresno State

NOTES: After seeing it laid out this way, there doesn't appear to be as many upsets as I initially thought. Though, it will take several simulations either way to constitute a trend...

FINAL RPI RATING: (Dumbass game only shows Top 25 RPI. Team Information screens for each school will reveal up to the 60-80s or so, but I'm not going to dig for this info at this time. Perhaps in future simulations if needed.)
1. Mississippi State 25-5 (13-3) = .608
2. Georgia Tech 24-5 (12-4) = .599
3. Duke 26-2 (15-1) = .598
4. NC State 26-4 (12-4) = .597
5. Oklahoma 23-6 (13-3) = .588
6. Arkansas 21-8 (13-3) = .582
7. Villanova 28-2 (18-0) = .581
8. Kansas 21-8 (13-3) = .579
9. Texas 24-6 (12-4) = .576
10. Virginia Tech 19-12 (6-10) = .575
11. Jacksonville 29-1 (16-0) = .572
12. Iowa State 24-6 (10-6) = .570
13. Nevada 27-3 (15-1) = .567
14. Charleston 21-8 (12-3) = .567
15. Boston College 19-10 (10-6) = .565
16. Fairleigh Dickinson 27-3 (17-1) = .564
17. Wake Forest 17-11 (9-7) = .563
18. Jacksonville 23-7 (11-5) = .561
19. Nebraska 18-11 (9-7) = .559
20. Brigham Young 23-7 (14-2) = .559
21. Appalachian State 21-7 (9-5) = .558
22. Lamar 26-4 (13-3) = .558
23. Georgia 19-9 (13-3) = .558
24. McNeese State 20-9 (10-6) = .557
25. Baylor 19-10 (10-6) = .557

QUESTIONABLE 'BEST OF THE REST' TEAMS:
Oklahoma State 15-14 (7-9) = .552
Virginia Tech 19-12 (6-10) = .575

QUESTIONABLE BUBBLE WATCH TEAMS:
Southern Cal 19-9 (13-5) = .496
Ohio State 13-15 (9-7) = .524
Maryland 14-14 (7-9) = .554
Wisconsin 14-15 (7-9) = .535

Play-In Game:
Manhattan def. Hampton

NCAA TOURNAMENT SEEDING AND RESULTS IN NEXT POST.....

[cdj]

REGION ONE:
(1) Duke (26-2) vs. (16) Holy Cross (20-10)
(8) Ohio (20-9) vs. (9) Georgia (19-9)
(5) Arkansas (21-8) vs. (12) Montana State (22-7)
(4) UAB vs. (13) UMass (20-10)
(6) Florida (20-9) vs. (11) Kent State (22-8)
(3) Washington (22-8) vs. (14) Fairleigh Dickinson (27-3)
(7) Old Dominion (18-10) vs. (10) Saint Joseph's (20-8)
(2) Georgia Tech (24-5) vs. (15) Boston College (19-10)

NOTES: ACC Teams meet in first round! [evil]...Old Dominion the fourth place team in Colonial, selected at-large...

REGION TWO:
(1) Louisville (26-4) vs. (16) Manhattan (16-16)
(8) Oklahoma State (15-14) vs. (9) Wake Forest (17-11)
(5) Illinois (19-11) vs. (12) Western Carolina (21-9)
(4) BYU (23-7) vs. (13) Pepperdine (19-9)
(6) Wisc.-Milwaukee (20-8) vs. (11) George Mason (22-8)
(3) Kansas (21-8) vs. (14) Valparaiso (17-13)
(7) Pennsylvania (21-7) vs. (10) North Carolina (16-13)
(2) Oklahoma (23-6) vs. (15) Eastern Kentucky (22-8)

NOTES: UWM finishes second in Horizon, RPI of 37 selected for at-large.....

REGION THREE:
(1) Villanova (28-2) vs. (16) UIC (22-8)
(8) Gonzaga (18-11) vs. (9) Syracuse (18-12)
(5) Indiana (25-5) vs. (12) Jacksonville (29-1)
(4) Iowa State (24-6) vs. (13) McNeese State (20-9)
(6) Boston College (19-10) vs. (11) Alabama (15-13)
(3) George Washington (23-6) vs. (14) CS-Northridge (23-6)
(7) San Diego State (23-5) vs. (10) Winthrop (20-10)
(2) Texas (24-6) vs. (15) Jackson State (24-6)

NOTES: McNeese State fourth-best team in Southland conf., selected at-large...

REGION FOUR:
(1) Nevada (27-3) vs. (16) Northern Iowa (16-14)
(8) Michigan State (18-11) vs. (9) Baylor (19-10)
(5) Arizona (19-9) vs. (12) Tennessee (15-13)
(4) Memphis (20-9) vs. (13) Southern Cal (19-9)
(6) UConn (18-11) vs. (11) Houston (20-10)
(3) Mississippi State (25-5) vs. (14) Lamar (26-4)
(7) Virginia Tech (19-12) vs. (10) Appalachian State (21-7)
(2) NC State (26-4) vs. (15) South Alabama (21-9)

NOTES: Appalachian State fifth-best team in SOCON, selected at-large...Potential ACC match-up in round two...Potential Pac-10 match-up in round two...

THOSE WHO MISSED THE TOURNEY "On the Bubble":
Maryland 14-14, Ohio State 13-15, Utah 14-14, UTEP 17-12, Bucknell 17-12, La Salle 21-9, Wisconsin 14-15, Charleston 21-8, Iowa 16-13, Troy 23-7, South Carolina 16-12.

[Also....these teams were not listed in the game for being "On the Bubble" but should have been and missed the tourney:
Nebraska 18-11 (10-8) #21 RPI
Texas A&M 16-12 (8-8) #53 RPI
Miami 16-13 (7-9) #34 RPI
Hofstra 20-8 (12-5) #43 RPI
St. Peter's 24-4 (16-3) UNR RPI
Toledo 20-9 (12-4) #89 RPI
South Carolina State 25-4 (16-2) #62 RPI
Bradley 21-8 (15-5) UNR RPI
Tennessee Tech 19-9 (13-3) #40 RPI
Texas State 20-9 (13-5) #54 RPI

NOTES: Oklahoma State finished #30 in RPI, yet edged out Nebraska who was #21 and had better conference and overall records. Very odd. Syracuse had an RPI of 90, yet they also were selected for an at-large.

Also note - the RPI listed in the post above is the end of reg. season RPI, while the RPI above is from the end of the conf. tourney.

[cdj]

REGION ONE:
1) Duke 73, 16) Holy Cross 59
9) Georgia 57, 8) Ohio 54
5) Arkansas 56, 12) Montana State 55
4) UAB 63, 13) UMass 62
6) Florida 72, 11) Kent State 59
14) Fairleigh Dickinson 75, 3) Washington 56
7) Old Dominion 83, 10) Saint Joseph's 77
2) Georgia Tech 71, 15) Boston 48

9) Georgia 61, 1) Duke 59
5) Arkansas 65, 4) UAB 54
6) Florida 70, 14) Fairleigh Dickinson 54
2) Georgia Tech, 7) Old Dominion 44

5) Arkansas 66, 9) Georgia 59
2) Georgia Tech 77, 6) Florida 56

2) Georgia Tech 61, 5) Arkansas 60


REGION TWO:

1) Louisville 86, 16) Manhattan 51
8) Oklahoma State 82, 9) Wake Forest 71
5) Illinois 60, 12) Western Carolina 55
13) Pepperdine 73, 4) BYU 72
11) George Mason 64, 6) Wisc.-Milw. 51
3) Kansas 86, 14) Valpo 61
7) Penn 59, 10) North Carolina 50
2) Oklahoma 74, 15) E. Kentucky 54

1) Louisville 88, 8) Oklahoma State 59
5) Illinois 70, 13) Pepperdine 56
11) George Mason 76, 3) Kansas 75
2) Oklahoma 87, 7) Penn 60

5) Illinois 66, 1) Louisville 58
11) George Mason 79, 2) Oklahoma 72

5) Illinois 59, 11) George Mason 52

REGION THREE:

1) 'Nova 77, 16) UIC 55
9) Syracuse 87, 8) Gonzaga 56
12) Jacksonville 66, 5) Indiana 38
13) McNeese State 60, 4) Iowa State 52
11) Alabama 73, 6) Boston College 47
3) George Washington 73, 14) CS Northridge 56
7) San Diego State 69, 10) Winthrop 59
2) Texas 74, 15) Jackson State 34

1) 'Nova 77, 9) 'Cuse 54
12) Jacksonville 61, 13) McNeese State 42
3) George Washington 77, 11) Alabama 61
2) Texas 85, 7) San Diego State 63

12) Jacksonville 59, 1) 'Nova 58
2) Texas 71, 3) G. Washington 68

12) Jacksonville 64, 2) Texas 61


REGION FOUR:

1) Nevada 78, 16) Northern Iowa 57
8) Michigan State, 9) Baylor 64
12) Tennessee 66, 5) Arizona 61
4) Memphis 58, 13) Southern Cal 48
11) Houston 69, 6) UConn 68
14) Lamar 78, 3) Miss. State 63
10) Appalachian State 62, 7) VA Tech 51
2) NC State 73, 15) South Alabama 55

1) Nevada 76, 8) Michigan State 65
4) Memphis 61, 12) Tennessee 52
11) Houston 61, 14) Lamar 59
2) NC State 69, 10) Appalachian State 48

1) Nevada 77, 4) Memphis 76
2) NC State 73, 11) Houston 72

2) NC State 68, 1) Nevada 62

FINAL FOUR:

2) NC State 66, 12) Jacksonville 63
2) Georgia Tech 71, 5) Illinois 58

CHAMPIONSHIP:

2) GA Tech 56, 2) NC State 47


NOTES: Some powerful upsets: a 12-seed to the Final Four, two 11-seeds to the Sweet 16....Ultimately, the "favorites" prevailed - it seems that most (all?) of the 'highly controversial' teams that made it in ended up winning their first-round game - coincidence or does the CPU know something?


I don't think I will need to be as detailed in simulating future seasons.

Some things to look for:
Low RPI teams passed over....double-digit seeds in Sweet 16 and beyond...odd teams on Bubble Watch, while good teams do not make it.

Also....in hindsight, I was fairly certain my initial RPI post was not typed up until the conclusion of the season/conf tourney's...yet the RPI changed when I started evaluating NCAA tourney teams. Perhaps I typed the first post before 'Selection Sunday' - and then the final computation took place.

[LikeWhoa20]

This is why I don't get March Madness. CH 2k6 does have its problems too, but this is most definitely not one of them. It may give too much credit to the major programs, but at least you don't have 5th place mid-major teams getting at-large bids and major programs being seeded #15 (Boston College). For the most part, I've agreed with the seeding and only had a handful of gripes about certain bubble teams being left out.

I got to hand it to you for the work you put in on that cdj. That's some in-depth info.

[cdj]

With some time to look over this, here are some solutions that have popped into mind - they are quite obvious, so I'm preaching to the choir here:


* BUBBLE WATCH: Teams from the major conferences that have a winning record, a .435 or better mark in conf play, and an RPI lower than 100 should be on the Bubble Watch, guaranteed. For teams from other conferences, perhaps raise requirements to a .600 conference record and RPI 80 and lower. Regardless of specifics, the problem is that not enough teams even make bubble consideration which is ridiculous.

* TOURNAMENT: Implement the guidelines the committee uses. Conf. foes do not meet until Sweet 16 at earliest, etc. Also, major conf. schools do not get seeded lower than 12...just the way it is.

* SELECTION OF AT-LARGE TEAMS: I have no clue how some of those teams were selected. Low RPI teams from power conf. passed over for 4th place teams from middle/lesser conferences? I'm guessing there is some sort of "Big Win" quotient I am not seeing. Either way, it is absurd and needs to be fixed.

* FIX THE RPI. Show the complete RPI list for all teams.

* ADD NIT. Now that it is owned and operated by the NCAA, this needs to be included. This game loses even more replay value when teams get the shaft after a good/great season. From personal experience: I win 20 games (12 conf. games inc. the tourney) and don't make the big dance and never crack the bubble watch. My season is over - what motivation do I have to play another season when I feel that I have to win the conference with a major power just to get into tourney consideration?

[smeth]

Actually this happened very recently in my legacy with WVU. I finally got a 1 seed and who do I play...Illinois. They had a terrible record (like 10-20 or something) but I guess they won the big ten tourney so it makes sense.

[cdj]

Actually this happened very recently in my legacy with WVU. I finally got a 1 seed and who do I play...Illinois. They had a terrible record (like 10-20 or something) but I guess they won the big ten tourney so it makes sense.

That happened in my dynasty. Ohio State won ONE conference game all year, yet won the Big 10 Tourney. I didn't bother to check their seeding in the tournament though - but I thought it was a crock that they rose up to win those four games.

[Mr. Tennessee]

Wow how did Jacksonville go 29-1?

[cdj]

Wow how did Jacksonville go 29-1?

Good question. Unfortunately, you cannot look at a team's schedule/results....I did notice that they had won 29 straight - so the only loss came in the season opener. [wow]

[Mr. Tennessee]

Good question. Unfortunately, you cannot look at a team's schedule/results....I did notice that they had won 29 straight - so the only loss came in the season opener. [wow]
that's bullshit. On 2k6 you can look at the teams schedule results.

[cdj]

that's bullshit. On 2k6 you can look at the teams schedule results.

If it's there, I've never stumbled across it. You can view the scores for each day, but that's way too labor intensive for a user. I contend that most of the staff who works on MM do not follow/understand college hoops - and they keep supporting my case on a daily basis.

I will double check and see if it's there (common sense says it would be), but I don't think it is.

[Mr. Tennessee]

If it's there, I've never stumbled across it. You can view the scores for each day, but that's way too labor intensive for a user. I contend that most of the staff who works on MM do not follow/understand college hoops - and they keep supporting my case on a daily basis.

I will double check and see if it's there (common sense says it would be), but I don't think it is.
ah, well its really simple on ch2k6. go to schedule, season schedule and the L and R triggers to move to different conferences and the black and white buttons to change teams. HOW CAN EA NOT PUT THAT IN? THAT IS SO BASIC THAT THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED RETARDED IF THEY MISSED THAT. :o

[cdj]

ah, well its really simple on ch2k6. go to schedule, season schedule and the L and R triggers to move to different conferences and the black and white buttons to change teams. HOW CAN EA NOT PUT THAT IN? THAT IS SO BASIC THAT THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED RETARDED IF THEY MISSED THAT. :o


If in MM, I figured it'd be simple like that....but I'm just not seeing it. Heck, the only way to see my schedule/results is to go into the 'Gameplan Scheduling' menu. I think it's safe to say it's not "in the game." [wow]

[cdj]

Still trying to figure out how seeding is done....not 100% sure. Follows "MEDIA POLL" pretty closely, but not exactly.


Regional Championships:
(2) Louisville def. (9) Houston 62-54
(5) NC State def. (3) UConn 61-60
(9) Georgia def. (2) Illinois 57-54
(3) Georgia Tech def. (4) Old Dominion 63-57

Final Four:
(2) Louisville def. (5) NC State 64-54
(9) Georgia def. (3) Georgia Tech 60-59

Championship:
(9) Georgia def. (2) Louisville 63-57


Other tournament items of note:
Biggest 1st Round Upset: (12) Brown def. (5) Alabama 67-57
Lowest seeds in Sweet 16: (9) Houston and (9) Georgia
(1) Villanova def (16) Hofstra 80-79 in 1st round, lost to (9) Houston 65-52 in second round.
(2) Louisville def. (15) Tennessee Tech 65-64 in 1st round


* This season was simulated using 10 min. halves...1st simulation used 12 min. halves. Appears to have made little to no difference in scores. *

[Mr. Tennessee]

This game is garbage since Georgia won the NC. [laugh]

[GOVols]

Don't feel bad I, too have MM....[down]

Haven't gotten to the Tourney yet, 7-6(1-1) with Rhode Island.[laugh]

[29ers-n-OU]

well i have MM and i think itz a nice game but it does have itz problems.

i played as howard university from the MEAC and i simulated most the season up to the conference tournament. i won the MEAC and went into the tournament with like 8 losses. now what made me mad was that they put me as a number 15 seed. i had to play florida in the first round. my record was better than their's tho. to make a long story short i ended up playing washington in the final four. washington won all there games in the season but lost to usc in conference tournament. my team had played so strong in the tournament(beat florida, georgia and villanova). when i played washington i thought it was going to be a good game but i ended up blowing them out and eventually played duke in the title game which i won anyway.

the problem was that when i went to recruit, i figured that since i won the NC i would get some good players. to my surprise since i was 1 star but moved to a two star after winning NC they still gave me some ballers that was some crap. i had to go around the nation finding good players but the only person i had signed was a recruit i had during in-season recruiting. i got some walkons who were not good.

they need to do something about this. i figure if you win the NC or have a verry good season then you should be able to attract some good players even if your a 1 star team thatz moved up to the next star. how can you build a dynasty with some bad players especially if their missing layups and three pointers not to mention dunks.

ea needs to get it right next year.